This post is very much like the previous post involving time travel and how I'm doing it. This entire post was going to be part of Episode 120's Author Note but I had a lot to talk about given the topic and how much it effected me so I decided to make it its own post instead. Do note that I've gone on really long tangents before usually involving Fairy Tail. I like writing longer than normal posts due to me enjoying this a lot. This may happen again but I'm not sure. Lets begin and I hope you enjoy my two cents on it. Also I call Hal Jordan either Green Lantern or by his name.
The Death Battle between Ben 10 and Green Lantern is something that I wanted to talk about ever since it was announced after Wario vs King Dedede, a fight that I honestly didn't know the outcome to. I love a good fight where I don't see the outcome coming from a mile away. For me at the very least, I can name a good amount of fights where I didn't see the outcome. Ben 10 vs Green Lantern isn't one of those fights.
I would have like to talk about this closer to the battle's release date but like when I talk about One Piece, Fairy Tail, or really anything I wanted, I like to wait a little bit before I give my opinion. This is due to me wanting to see others opinion on the topic. Like I've mentioned in my time travel post, I like to wait three or more weeks after something comes out before I personally talk about. I've mostly likely come against this rule before when I do my recaps on One Piece.
This mainly comes into play when I'm writing Fairy Legion constantly and go through my backlog on my chapters. As of now, I have a lot of them due to me focusing on Zero. I'll eventually run out of stuff to talk about with One Piece. I'm not Tekking101 when it comes to make One Piece content at all. Before I begin this rant, I should give some background information. For this, I highly recommend checking out a couple of thing for context.
The video ,may have to scroll back a bit on the videos, Ben 10 vs Green Lantern, the Q/A of Ben 10 vs Green Lantern with the google docs on the question of the Q/A, and the article on Ben 10 vs Green Lantern on Death Battle Wiki. You should also check out these videos out being that I just find it good supplementary videos to this argument for one side of the argument. Kuro the Artist/The Ink Tank's Reaction to the Fight and Kuro the Artist/The Ink Tank's Reaction to the Q/A.
Lets begin. I've talked about Death Battle before being that I've been a fan and will be a fan of this web series since 2011. I'm a huge fan of the fights being that for me, the research for the fight is kinda pointless. The animation to me is what makes this show great and amazing from other shows where people talk about two or more fictional characters in a fight and who would win. So with this idea in mind, what made this Death Battle so special?
When this fight was announced, I honestly didn't expect this. How is this Death Battle would be one of the most negatively received Death Battles of all times? I'm one of the many dislikes and even after all of this time, I still think that this is my least favorite Death Battle. I can see both sides of this and respect both sides but to me, I'm not going back to undislike it. I'm sticking to my guns on this and I hope nothing changes about this.
I do think that it isn't the worst battle within the series being that they've had some worst death battles in the series as a whole. Just look at Season 1 of Death Battle for some really bad battles being that like most content creators, it isn't very good. No creators gets it right the first time. It takes trial and error to get something right. You shouldn't compared a new video compared to an older video. When this fight was first announced, I was hyped for this.
I'm a huge fan of Ben 10 and Green Lantern being that this death battle was honestly one that I was really looking forward to. I haven't look forward to a Death Battle in a long time being that I'll always watch it regardless if I know the characters or not. I watched Ben 10 as a kid and instantly fell in love with the show. I like superheroes and nothing is going to change about that. Green Lantern is one of the heroes who got me into comics later on because his powers are literally the power of Imagination.
Firestorm is one of my favorite heroes in DC so I would love to see him in Death Battle one day but lets talk about Green Lantern for a bit. I would love to see Green Lantern's full power in making vast and varied constructs in either a Cartoon or Movie medium but I always remember that it costs a lot of money to make TV shows and especially movies. With this in mind, we'll probably not see Green Lantern at their full power because of this.
So before I go into my problems within the episode, I decided to do some research on what were the most negative reviewed ,through dislikes to likes on Youtube, Death Battles before the most recent battle aka Episode 110. In my research, most fights usually ranged between 80% to 90%. There were only a few that weren't in that general range. This is a usually very good sign in my book but you have to remember that people ,including myself, have talked about Death Battle.
So as of June 6th 2019 when I got this data, these are the top 10 of the lowest ranked Death Battles so far. Number 10 is Pikachu vs Blanka with 78%. Number 10 is Kirby vs Majin Buu with 78%. Number 8 is Zelda vs Peach with 74%. Number 8 is Gaara vs Toph with 74%. Number 7 is Thor vs Wonder Woman with 72%. Number 6 is Pokemon vs Digimon with 71%. Number 5 is Tracer vs Scout with 69%.
Number 4 is Lara Croft vs Nathan Drake with 64%. Number 3 is Goku vs Superman with 61%. Number 2 is Goku vs Superman R2 with 58%. Number 1 is Ben 10 vs Green Lantern with 56%. I honestly knew about Number 2 and 3 didn't surprise me but I accepted those results because of how Superman and Goku are written. Superman is written as a person with no limits and Goku is written as a character that constantly surpass his limits but still has them.
With the first one, they got a lot of credible sources such as Team Fourstar who know their dragon ball lore. All of these Death Battles mentioned above and all Death Battles will have salt in it. I've mentioned before that I would love to see Saitama in Death Battle, his opponent will either be a dumb choice, a good choice, or someone who should burn in hell and the crew are awful beings that should kill themselves for even including that character in the first place.
Yes those comments exist. Those people are monsters. While I disagree with this fight, I don't hate them for it. Just read the comments sections to each of these fights on the Death Battle Wiki or read the youtube comments. Back to the Death Battle between Ben 10 and Green Lantern. I was pretty sure that Ben 10 was going to win because of Alien X. I've stated this before but I honestly don't care about power scaling and all of that crap associated.
When I first saw this Death Battle, I was pissed off. I usually don't get that mad over fictional stuff but this legit made me want to punch a wall. I've calmed down a lot over the past three weeks but I'm still a little salty about it being that their reasoning. I still think that they pretty much screwed over Ben 10 in this fight. When Kuro did his reaction video to this, Rooster Teeth asked him to take down the video nicely.
The fight did come out before hand on their website but not Youtube which is where most people including myself watch these battles. I thought that this was a good idea but at first, I was annoyed at this. I honestly thought that Death Battle were petty about someone saying that their outcome to their fight is wrong. This is just one person's opinion and I accept that. People who give crap or sending death threats to others shouldn't be done. Instead of fighting, we should talk about it.
So lets talk about my opinion on Ben 10 vs Green Lantern. Most of my complains come from me watching the Kuro videos since I tend to have trouble giving my thoughts out. I'm not in full agreement with him but I agree with most of his points. The information that they got for Ben was pretty good being that I'm a fan of the show and I was like okay being that lets just insert This is fine meme here.
So Kuro brought up how in the Death Battle, they mentioned that the Omnitrix can horrible disfigure a user DNA if overused enough time. Kuro even mentioned how he never heard about that feature before and he's a major Ben 10 Fan. If there is something about the show, he probably knows about it. I did like the hybrid monster that was Boomstick though. The amount of detail is just incredible being that I wish that they put more effort into the fight rather than just a one off gag. We'll get there.
I looked this up being that I found something on this topic. On the Ben 10 List Wiki, I did find this little nugget. According to Azmuth, overusing one alien form will have a detrimental effect on the user's ability to control other forms. It's also in Omniverse. I'm not sure where they got that info from but like Kuro, I'm interested to learn. I also found out thanks to the Ben 10 wiki, that the original Omnitrix ,featured in Ben 10 Classic and Alien Force, could scan Kevin's mutations.
I don't know why but that's just interesting to learn. I love learning something new about something I know really well. It's like learning about something new. I've stated this before but for Death Battle, I just prefer the 2D sprite based art rather than 3D. It's just a personal thing but I feel like it's better as a whole. Now the fight between Ben 10 and Green Lantern is where my problems with the fight as a whole stand from.
Lets start with the good first. I enjoyed the Alien X's flick into outer space because it was honestly really cool to see. So Kuro mentioned that they didn't give Ben full control over Alien X and I kinda agree. Like I mentioned in my time travel video, I don't care for time travel. So him mentioned the Sotobro Effect was lost on me. He later explained what the sotobro effect is and this makes sense due to Alien X being written as omnipotent god.
That's how Superman won against Goku in my eyes because while Superman has his limits and weakness, Goku can't match up to those feats. The Omnitrix has many failsafes being that Kuro show an image of Sunder trying to cut the prototype Omnitrix in the episode Singlehanded. How Green Lantern won the fight is total bullshit because of how in Omniverse, they mentioned that the watch will transform Ben into whatever alien he needs to survive.
The Omnitrix could transform Ben fast enough to catch the Big Bang. It isn't even mentioned one time within the fight and I trust Kuro because if involves Ben 10, I trust him. Now Kuro's complains about them treating Alien X as a melee fighter was lost on me. He also mentioned how Alien X could erase people instantly but they pull a snap instead. This was mostly likely done to extend the fight time and references some of the biggest movies at the time.
However when you bring it up in the recap with the clip of Kevin telling Ben (from the Classic Series) that Alien X's species can erase within a blink of eye, you should probably stuck to your guns on that. So Kuro mentioned ,get used to this a lot by the way, on how Death Battle mentioned that Alien X can create black holes. Green Lantern probably had a way to get out of it but why did they just have Alien X and his clones stand there.
Some of them beat on the energy shield around Hal but most stood there just waiting to be tag out or something. Alien X's clones were erased thanks to Hal but they aren't Shadow Clones. They's copies of Alien X being that Hal is exposed. Hal Jordan does have a weakness being that his watch does have a time limit. The Omnitrix does not being that it's powered by a power source that will outlive Ben. This is according to the Ben 10 Wiki so take with a grain of salt.
I also never noticed that Death Battle fight usually results with Dragon Ball styles fights rather than fights involving complex strategies. It's like action movies. While I like Dragon Ball fights since I'm a simple person, this does gets old after a while. Maybe that's why they did the comical death with the scissors but honestly, I would have liked a basic explosion. It's visible more interesting and gives some respect to the losing fighter. This outcome is an insult to Ben 10 and its fans.
They did use Master Control for this fight being that this is one of my biggest problems. Out of the confirmed ,and by confirmed I mean named and used withing the series spinoff or canon, seventy aliens with Ben 10 (Classic to Omniverse since I saw that they used very little from the reboot which is either a good or bad thing), they used SIX of them. That's about 8 to 9% given or take rounding up or down. I get that there is animation limitations and I see that.
In the Q/A, they mentioned that people wanted to see the more iconic aliens more. So why not use Astrodactyl, Diamondhead, Feedback, Ghostfreak, Rath, Terraspin, Upgrade, and Wildmutt? They mentioned them as an iconic transformation. The fact that they only used six transformations for a character named Ben 10 is insulted. They should have used 10 transformations given the nature of the show.
In the show, the amount of aliens that Ben used is usually never 10 to be far but Ben 10 should at least show ten aliens at the very least. The fact that they only got six aliens and say that it was resource consuming is bullshit. I think that this fight was filler to them because they spend most of the budget and time on the RWBY Death Battle aka the 3-D battle since it's one of their own. We'll talk about this fight soon maybe.
So in the recap, they mentioned that Ben could use only one alien at a time compared to how Hal could use all of his powers at once, forcing Ben to play catch up to Hal. Ben could have use Ditto or Echo Echo to be multiple Aliens at once. Ben was also leading the fight while Hal was playing catch up instead. Ben could easily survive a planet explosion but they mentioned that he couldn't because they used Diamondhead's feat rather than say Alien X.
They also mentioned XLR8 ,being the reboot version I might add, but didn't use him in the fight at all. Kuro did mentioned Jetray could outspeed Hal Jordan but he wasn't used at all. Ben could have saved the universe from being destroyed if he knew about it. Kuro mentioned that they mentioned something he could do but then say that he couldn't. That's just dumb. The outcome is bullshit but I can say that Green Lantern could win but not like this.
A fight between two characters is usually character 1 win or character 2 win. It's two outcomes but how they get to this outcome is up to their imagination. This fight didn't do justice to Ben 10 and it did show off how great DC is. This is a good exposure to Ben 10 but they should have given him his just does. You'll do that for some characters but not all. So my biggest problem with the Q/A is that they did it not a couple of days after to nib the problems in the but but a week.
They just let this problem grow to a massive degree rather than them stopping it then and there. They wanted to do this for a while now but they should have tested this with a lesser controversial battle like Wario vs King Dedede. This fight wasn't controversial. So Kuro mentions at the start of his video that the animation should be taken as a factor to judge the episode on. Like I mentioned before in this post, Death Battle and its animation are the reason why Death Battle is so popular.
Without animation, they would be just like everyone else. It's a cop out and I honestly have done this when I see people complain about their fights. The two hosts are easily the best part of Death Battle but how Boomstick aka Chad's complete shock over the outcome is noticeable. It's like how in Garra vs Toph, Boomstick's poor attitude of Gaara losing was based on how Chad reacting to him losing to Toph in the first place.
It's honestly damming how they're just the hosts now rather than the ones doing the research. This is a good thing being that instead of maybe a couple of years, we get more than ten in a years thanks to the team working behind them. Kuro mentions how they never mentioned that all of these fights are for entertainment rather than an confirmed answer. They do it in the additional content which isn't fair to the average viewer who doesn't care about these.
Using the Animation as a argument for the fights outcome is lazy being that you need to either make for entertainment or a serious argument. Pick one and stick with it. Death Battle's Q/A was more focused on Green Lantern rather than Ben 10. I hate when arguments focus on one side without addressing the other side of the argument and saying that it's a fair point. I honestly saw that and I waited for them to say that Ben 10 could do this.
It's a huge pet peeve of mine being that this entire rant is just me venting out my frustration on this fight. Kuro does admit that he doesn't know that much about Green Lantern but he does know about Ben 10. He should have been a source for Ben 10 to use in the Death Battle. Now they tried to defend Hal by using all of the Green Lanterns not just Hal Jordan of the New 52 or Post Crisis. They say that a random Green Lantern could do it so that logically, Hal Jordan could do it.
That's just bullshit. You should use only HAL JORDAN not some random Green Lantern. You can even use all version of the character not the entire GREEN LANTERN CORPS. You should just stick with one version of a character so its a fair fight. Hal Jordan has been around for 50+ years and Ben 10 has been around for not even half of the time. They used theoretical feats for Hal Jordan but not Ben 10. They only used sixteen year old Ben but won't allow theoretical feats for him.
If you're going to be a biased or a hypocrtic bitch about something, you should let the other character you have in your fight being a composite character as well. Go all out and make it fair rather than biased as fuck. They brought up feats from the Green Lantern Corps as a whole and apply it to Hal Jordan since he's a Green Lantern. I also like the composite Ben 10 that Kuro drew being that I really want it in Five Years Later. From the Google Docs, I picked out some questions I want to talk about.
In the Q/A, they mentioned that Upgrade couldn't take control of Hal's Ring because of Doctor Manhattan. I accept that as a fair reason since Doctor Manhattan is a character who is pretty much a god and how can you dispute that? I'm not the person to answer that question. They also mentioned why they didn't use Chromostone or Feedback being that they could take energy from Hal and the ring.
They saw that they could have taken Hal's energy but Hal could also take it back because he can also take energy. It still should have been done to show that it could be done. It would have shown more of Ben 10 to the general public. They mentioned how they couldn't use Ditto or Echo Echo being that for the former, Hal could have just killed one Ditto being that all of them would die due to them sharing pain. The latter retort had no coordination.
I can get both of those reasons but like before, we should have seen it be done to show off more of Ben to the general public. Kuro also brings up that Alien X could have cloned himself being all of them are the same person. You have to factor in everything in a fight being that it could be something small. I know that sounds like a lot of hard work being that you have to keep a schedule I guess. You could just do a Death Battle a month rather than every three weeks I'm just saying.
This will give you time to do more research for your fights but fans will complain anything big or small. Just look at me. I'll agree that the failsafe argument has its flaws but Hal cutting off Ben's arm shouldn't have been the way to do it. You should have done a massive explosion and have Alien X being unable to stop it due to Alien X having to agree on it. It was later retconned away but it should have been in the battle or mentioned.
The Alien X blinking out of reality was mentioned but to bring up a previous point, they allowed theoretical feats for Hal so why the hell didn't they do it for Ben? This is a theoretical feat and I'm sure that it wasn't a joke when they mentioned it. You can tell when a show is taking something as a joke or something to be taken serious. The last thing I want to bring up involving the Q/A is how they say that the Omnitrix's AI isn't perfect.
This is mostly like the case with the prototype Omnitrix which is not the perfected Omnitrix shown in Omniverse. They do bring up Whampire in the desert but Azmuth ,the creator of the Omnitrix, has mentioned how Ben's mistransformations are done not because of the watch but how Ben slams down on the watch. Ben is only human and AI are robots so errors don't usually happen when your creator is one of the smartest beings in the galaxy.
I also wanted to bring up how some people think that it was Kuro who called one of the Death Battle Researchers a bitch in the Q/A. I honestly don't think that it wasn't him because he isn't that type of person. I'm going to have faith in him on that because he isn't like people who criticize someone just because they didn't agree here. He gave his opinion on that matter in a calm but fair away so whoever did that, you're an asshole who just wants to make a problem even worse than it really needs to be.
Trolls like you are the reason why people think that the Ben 10 Fandom is so bad and whiny. Here's a news flash folks. ALL FANDOMS ARE LIKE THIS! NOT JUST BEN 10! SONIC IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS, SMASH IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THIS, and so many more examples of a loud and vocal minority of the fandom ruining the name of everyone in that fandom. The idea of Misinterpretation is a serious problem.
You can take a statement that someone said ten years ago and apply to it now. People change as they grow up. Opinions usually don't stay the same as they did before being that time changes you for the better. In conclusion, Green Lantern is more popular than Ben 10 to the general public. Your average viewer isn't going to care about Ben 10 who is a cartoon character rather than Hal Jordan who has been in movies and TV shows, making him more noticeable and recognizable.
I honestly agree with how Kuro says that Ben 10 shouldn't have been in the battle. He says that Ben 10 being there and how he was shown is a insult to the character and its fans. I'm a Ben 10 fan and if that wasn't obvious. I want people to see the character that I grew up loving and the world I'm a fan of. This is the show that I actually drew fan aliens for before I had access to the internet. I don't have those pictures anymore but I remember drawing them and just enjoying myself.
I remember being so excited for Alien Force when it came out and the Omnitrix toy that I had back then is still a precious memory that I'll treasure for my entire life. This show is a reason why I love writing alongside Green Lantern. I got into comics thanks to Batman Brave and the Bold plus Green Lantern's Blackest Night. I'm sure that all of this fan backlash won't make them change their mind. It sucks but they should stuck to their guns rather than cowarding out.
You shouldn't cower out on your opinion and you should be loud and proud about it rather than sucking up to appease the fans. It's one of my problems with the Sonic movie. When the fans bitching/complained about Sonic's design, they pretty much pushed back the movie to work on the design. I hated this being that this movie is made for KIDS not adults. Something can be made for both kids and adults or just a singular group.
Marvel Movies do this and some shows do this. However, there are things that are made for kids and things made for adults. People just need to accept that as a thing. However does this mean that the sonic movie will be good? No. It could be just as bad as the trailer showed but now, we have a better looking Sonic. I rather them not just focus on the design of Sonic but the movie as a whole. To add something else of this massive rant, lets talk about one more thing.
My problem with this fight is that they pretty much shafted Ben and give Hal Jordan no flaws even though they are major flaws which I've said before. Because of this bias/hypocrisy, I have a strong feeling that the RWBY chick is going to win. The fight comes out tomorrow on Youtube at the time of writing this but I was sure that she's going to win since they own RWBY and bias but me and you may be surprise.
I'll look up spoilers if I don't care about something. It's what I did for Captain Marvel not because she's a woman or how I want all superhero movies to have males leading and female being the supporting roles. That isn't me and people like that should grow up. Girls and Boys should both be allowed to lead a story rather than one gender. I also don't care about Captain Marvel as a character and man that movie and Endgame didn't make me change my mind on her.
I'll talk about that at a later date being that man, I can added it onto Endgame and make that post longer than this one maybe. Not sure yet but it'll be something. At the end of this post, I'll be putting some comments written on the Death Battle Wiki that I'll be talking about. I don't mean anything against these people at all but I have my issues with their statements. It's their opinion and I respect them for stating them.
I've said many times before than having an opinion is a good thing and being part of the crowd isn't a good thing. This was from the first page of the comments of the article being that there is 1,530 comments talking about this. Some of them mean something and others are just funny like the one with the goat. It's good to see some light within the darkness. Some of them will be auto corrected because it just bothers me personally.
My story may not have the best grammar out there but at least in my eyes. it's readable. Not all of them will have response by the way. It's like how I did for Big Mom's Crew and Bleach's Quincy back in the day. If I talk about something, I'll be bolding the Username. Lets begin.
Comments:
Megahax: So their Death Battle Cast on the fight just got more dislikes than likes and the comments are just ,like, reading through it all is just giving me aneurysm after aneurysm. Hell, one guy said that each clone of Alien X was their own being of universal power. Like. What? No! They're still fucking Ben! And Ben fights like it's a physical battle! Stop making scenarios where Ben did this or that, because it would make no sense for him to do that! It's still biased in your favor! That's not how Ben wins! That's not how anyone would win in a fight! How many times do i have to say this: Ben is universal at best. GL? He's about multiversal, and that's more than enough to beat Ben 10. Christ, out of all the fandoms to be this stupid and toxic, why did it have to be Ben 10?
My Response: While I agree that people's backlash to this fight is a little extreme, it's kinda important to have this. It's showing that people care about something. When someone goes on a rant about something, it means that they care about something which is a good. I may not get why people make videos where they bitch the whole time but it shows that they care which is always a good thing rather than a bad thing.
JackofallOCtrades17: I'm sorry, but if I don't get this off my chest now I'm gonna get hung up on this for too long and I'm gonna lose it. I am absolutely disgusted at the amount of dislikes and senseless hatred that this episode has gotten. They honestly think after all this time NOW they'd screw it up? I understand if you're free to disagree, I mean we haven't really had too much controversy last season, key words being too much. But these guys are calling them stupid, saying they haven't really done their research and outright mocking the hard work they did on the animation!?! I'm sorry but I genuinely find that insulting, all their hard work simply being torn apart because some guys think their "favorite character" is better than all others when in fact, there are still a few that outmatch him! It doesn't help the fact that all the arguments they're presenting have been disproven tons and tons of times over yet they NEVER LISTEN! The failsafe? Too inconsistent to base a victory around, and Green Lantern is too fast for it. Not many aliens used? They have a deadline and a budget, they can't use every alien, or drag out the fight out of risk of making it boring! Multiversal Alien X? That can't be proven in Ben 10 canon, and they said themselves it was likely just a joke. The ring being taken or hacked? Upgrade can't figure it out when Dr. Manhattan can't, and Ben is definitely no Batman, especially when Hal wouldn't let his guard down in a fight! The Sodobro Effect? The Prime Ben 10 has never known about it, that was the Ben with no watch. And besides, that only works for Chronosapiens ,not Green Lanterns, and we haven't even seen it in effect so we can't be absolutely sure it'll even work!!! Besides, if Ben does turn into a Chronosapien, he'd just get his butt whooped because those guys are hardly fighters. Honestly, I just want all of this to end. This is driving me insane to no end and its making it difficult not only to enjoy Ben 10 but the Death Battle as a whole. And that sucks because I honestly think this is a great Death Battle, and honestly it was the one I was most hyped for so far. If could put all this to an end I could, and I want to so bad. But I can't, all this is just gonna keep continuing and it sucks. I really hope the fans can move on from this because frankly, this is just getting stupid.
My Response: My previous response applies here as well but I won't be repeating myself too much since I've done that enough. I do think that Death Battle heavily downplayed Ben 10 because of all of the feats he's done and the fact that they used a composite Green Lantern of the entire freaking corps rather just one guy and allowing him to use theoretical feats but not Ben 10 is biased and hypocritical as fuck.
Kiobi20: So tell do you honestly agree with Kuro and think Ben should have won? Because personally while I think he made some good points about some things, I honestly don't think any of that would have matter Green lantern feats are still just as good if not better that what Ben has done, and most of his second response to me felt more like he doesn't understand how the death battle rules actually works, the animation truly doesn't matter to the result it's just for fun, and they actually gave a reasonable argument as to why they don't always have the fight animation match exactly with the research and that is if they did the battles would almost always end the same way with little variety and the show presentation would become dull, sometimes some artistic liberties have to be taken because if they didn't most fight would end immediately when you consider all the amount of stomps death battle has had, the only part in which I agree with him in that criticism is one he said it would be better if they made that clear in the main video itself. Also it does feels hypocritical that he accuses them of trying to avoid criticism by pointing out that the animation is irrelevant when he started the video trying to avoid the criticism that people gave him from nitpicking inconsequential stuff by saying that he did give some arguments against the reasoning itself, but that doesn't make those criticisms invalid, just because you give some valid points doesn't change that if you did something wrong is still wrong. Also his argument of why their interpretation of green lantern is not valid to me felt like a strawman, he compares that to if they were combining every thing ben has ever had in every alternate version of the characters even if they are contradictory with each other failing to understand that the method of death battle is different because they only compare and consider the main canon version of the character with the sources that are not contradictory with each other if they really were analyzing green lantern like he claims they did, they would have included parallax, white lantern and him having every single green lantern ring in the universe, also them considering the feats of other green lanterns is not compositing is not like they're pretending they're the same person, that's just logical powerscaling since it makes sense they should be capable of the same feats since they're holding the same weapon just how every feat from another person using an Ironman armor could be applied to tony stark since he's the one who made them and should be able to create that for himself. Just because there are other videos talking about green lantern it doesn't mean is okay for you to just focus on Ben and not bother to research and analyze Hal Jordan, by that logic it would have been okay for them to just focus on green lantern and don't bother with Ben 10 since there are already other videos talking about Ben it doesn't even matter if Ben could see or feel what green lantern was doing the point still remains, Hal Jordan is much faster and the power green lantern has shown to be able to resist reality manipulation just as powerful if not more that what alien x has shown, that wouldn't have changed anything anyway. and in general his video felt that it had much less effort put into it that death battles they give almost an hour responding to every major argument they were given to them and Kuro only made a video of 15 minutes that doesn't even address all the information and points that they give and like half of it was just complaining about how he thinks death battle should work instead of treating how it actually does.
Epiqwester679: Hmmm...I don't think Kuro stating Ben could have won. He's just stating how Ben could counter Hal Jordan...Also, I love Kuro but I agree with MOST of the things he said, there are few things that I don't agree with (like certain things about the reboot). I've commenting for quiet sometime that: I'm a Ben 10 fan BUT even I admit there can be people who can stomp him. I did my own research on Hal, and there are certain info that made me worried for my boi like the speed feat you mentioned. What I'm angry is not cause of the verdict,...BUT the reasons they pointed out WHY he would lose was incorrect: Most importantly, The Failsafe. Kuro pointed out why it wouldn't work thus people (at least like me) questioning the verdict. Also Kuro did bring a good point about combining alternate versions. Death Battle did so with Deadpool and Red & Charizard. And the thing about the animation,..."The animation doesn't matter?"...Then why do 3-D fights in the first place. Heck, the animation of Deadpool Vs Deathstroke AND Dante Vs. Bayonetta is also an element on why these battles are my Faves. Also I was actually gonna be ok if you mentioned it but them saying this, even if it's sprites, THEY COULD HAVE MADE IT EVEN MORE AWESOME AS IT IS. Ben can shapeshift into different alien forms with different abilities and Hal's ring can construct almost anything through his imagination. They BOTH have checks & counters, against each other and they could have used to even prove their point. Like Jetray & Hal racing or Feedback Vs. GL Ring energy. It just seems like a wasted opportunity.
My Response: I really wish that we could have seen more of what Ben 10 could do being that this comment mentions some pretty cool stuff and how they have a deadline ,which is from a previous comment but can be used here, can be avoided if they do maybe a death battle once a month rather than every three weeks. Taking your time is more than important than rushing it at the very end. It's a lesson that we all must learn eventually.
Meleemaster 428: Sigh, Kuro's gonna make this whole "don't take the animation too seriously when judging the verdict" A LOT harder for some casual viewers now... When people say, "the animations don't matter", they mean that they shouldn't be taken at face value when discussing the verdict as a whole. If you wanted more accuracy in a fight, Hal blitzing Ben before he gets the chance to activate the Omnitrix or the fail safe goes off wouldn't be entertaining now would it? You can nitpick certain parts of the fight, but you can't actually predict how the fight is supposed to go because these are fictional characters with tons of possibilities. Plus the whole lead up from "the animation doesn't matter" to "the outcome doesn't matter" makes no sense whatsoever. There is a lot of potential for this fight, but Kuro fails to realize how much limitations are present in terms of 1. The character's sprites 2. How much time the animators have. I agree that there should have been more, but he did feel inconsiderate of how the process goes considering the fact he's an animator himself. Animating 20 of Ben's aliens for a short battle would be a fucking nightmare. The failsafe could have been better portrayed in the actual episode itself, but they were aware of the implications and the times it's failed if you watched the Q + A instead of skipping to Kuro's video like so many other people did. Most of Kuro's evidence relies on vague creator statements and a lack of limitations present in the show that makes it easy to abuse like an NLF. Speaking of which, making a "composite Ben 10,000" wouldn't matter since there's barely any information on what he has over Ben's most powerful alien, but people are eating it up anyway.
Epiqwester679: To: Meleemaster428. First off, Thank You for replying. Second, REGARDLESS OF WHAT KURO SAID, the fact that DeathBattle misinformed about the failsafe is why I don't think I like this battle. I MEAN IT WAS SO AWESOME...until the last part that left a bitter taste in my mouth.
My Response: I hated this battle because of the ending since the fight before hand was really cool to an extend.
Bucket Astley: In short... Ben: Goat in a field Omnitrix: Shield strapped onto said Goat Hal: Fucking Railgun.
My Response: I just really like this comment because this honestly made doing the research really fun to do it. It's all good to find good with the bad.
Megahax: "The animation DOES matter." - No it doesn't, you tool. You're not the director or animator of the fight, nor are you the creator of the show. The animation does not correlate to how an actual battle would go down. It is LITERALLY used as entertainment for what they think and how the battle would go down. "Everyone seems to have a key phrase in their back pocket to protect themselves from criticism. Is that a really a fair way to play?" - That's real rich coming from you, who couldn't accept the combatant losing, and posting this video. So what you're trying to tell us is that Death Battle somehow deflected criticism and you're calling their analysis unfair? Dude, you're incredibly biased towards Ben 10. You put up videos on how and why Ben 10 is the most powerful character ever and why he can beat anyone while also not doing any research whatsoever on their opponents. Kuro is a dense moron or just extremely petty. I'm even more disappointed in the amount of likes this video got. Just goes to show how immature these fanboys are.
My Response: This is what I and Kuro said before. The animation should be stated by the creators that it either A. doesn't matter and show be shown as entertainment or B. does matter and show be treated as an opinion. Also you shouldn't judge an entire fanbase on just a couple of people.
Regionfuego: Ok, I finished watching the video and I must agree he did stated some fair points. And I do agree that the animation and some degree matters, it matters a lot, is the selling point of the show for a lot of people, I've met and talked with people who watch only the battle and the afterthoughts. Now I'm nost saying that what happens in a fight is what "100% IS HOW THE FIGHT GOES" no, but the fight should feel logical within context. Is the same reason a lot of people seemed to dislike this battle, even people who weren't fans of Ben felt it was cheap, the battle animation gave the impression that Hal bailed Alien X because he couldn't take on him directly so he resorted on killing Ben instead. That's cheap, and makes you question the analysis itself. The second point Kuro brings out is that, and this is something I do have some problems with DB sometimes, is that they do a composite version of the characters, and sometimes is just ridiculous the stuff they pull out like, how they justified Doomsday having lightspeed reaction feats using an Injustice comic, that, while I'm sure Doomsday must have some sort of feat proving that, is DC after all, using a comic of somewhere that's NOT the main universe cheapens the experiences, and leaves you questioning if they really took their time to research the character or if they just searched for their "best" feat from wherever they could find them. And finally this goes for Megahax, don't generalize on the fandom of Ben 10, while Kuro seemed really immature on their chat with this video he was placed on a different light to me. There was no "saltiness" and it seems that you just jumped into the bandwagon of throwing rocks at him. He himself says that there are multiple characters that could beat Ben IN DC. So please, take it easy dude, we are all grown ups here.
My Response: I like this comment because the user brings how compositing some characters is a bad thing being that if Doomsday could do something in a video game, is there an example of him doing it in the main time. I also like how the user calls out Megahax on generalize the fandom. I did mentioned how I am sure that he didn't be a little bitch and call them out on the discord. He doesn't seem like the type so don't that.
Megahax: ^^^^^^ "don't generalize on the fandom of Ben 10" - How can I not when thousands of people dislike the results of their character being bodied by a DC Character. Not to mention that it's poorly showing the type of fandom they are. I used to be part of that fandom and never in my wildest dreams did I ever think they'd act like this. “There was no "saltiness" and it seems that you just jumped into the bandwagon of throwing rocks at him.“ - So you're just going to assume that I'm just jumping into this "bandwagon"? I've had problems with kuro's video even before the death battle, hell, even before all that too. If any, he's the one who's being salty over it by making videos that debunk Death Battle's analysis and calling their analysis as a way to deflect "criticism". Who's really being salty here now? The only bandwagon I'm guilty of, is the one where people are telling him to grow the hell up.
My Response: Maybe the reason for the dislikes didn't just come from the Ben 10 Fans but people who thought that the fight felt unfair to Ben 10. It really does feel like that and I'm someone from both fandoms. I also think that you saying that Kuro should grow up isn't fair either. Having an opinion is important so he should be loud and proud about his OPINION rather than being bullied for it. Arguing over this kind of stuff is a good and bad thing. It builds discussion.
Regionfuego: The dislikes come from the fact that the results were presented on a poor manner that left a bitter taste in the mouth. If they had compared the results properly, and for the battle to have ended on a less comedic way that leads to the assumption that GL couldn't have won if he faced Alien X 1v1, then yes, maybe the dislikes wouldn't have been so overwhelming. It was a poor episode despite the result or the battle. Also, Death Battle keeps using composites versions of the character which is frustrating for a lot of people in the battleboards community. Actually I've seen more people complaining about them using Pre-crisis feats for GL "because another GL allegedly survived the event" and Hal didn't. They did a lot of assumptions on GL's parts, which lead to people complaining "If they do so many assumptions with GL why not with Ben? why are they more strict with one character and not with the other?"
My Response: Thank you! This is a great comment being that I really wish that the fight ended with an massive explosion rather than super fast scissors. The user brings up how Green Lantern could do this and that because ANOTHER GREEN LANTERN AKA NOT HAL could do this thing. I'm not a fan of composite characters anymore because of this Death Battle being that if you do it for one of the fighters, do it FOR BOTH OF THEM NOT JUST ONE YOU BIAS AND HYPOCRITICAL SHITS. This is toward Death Battle and not Regionfuego.
Dgay1: As a long time casual death battle viewer, this is the first time I truly felt conflicted with the outcome, not because of the fact that lantern won, but because of HOW he won. They mentioned in the conclusion that even alien x had little chance of defeating lantern. That is fine. It's their opinion. But why portray Hal's victory so poorly? More importantly, why have x use time control and then have Hal do the same? Certain battles like Mario vs sonic 2018 and raven versus twilight sparkle has mentioned abilities that both combatants had but did not use because it would result in a stalemate, a counter, or either character potentially winning with ease. (I.e. Mario's stop watch could counter sonic's chaos control, raven and twilight had several spells that could one shot the other). If Hal was capable of beating even x, why portray the fight with x dominating him? I know the fight is not what determines the victor, but I believe that there would have been much less backlash if the death battle crew just portrayed Hal beating x, whether it is possible or not. I was enjoying the battle right up to the final blow; there are so many errors with that. This is coming from someone that is a dc fan; I have never seen a single episode of Ben 10. But I still he was lowballed here. I know the death battle crew will not change their decision, but they still should have portrayed their research better. I hope I'm not being too harsh...
My Response: This is a fair comment as well being that if Death Battle wanted Hal to win, show him beating the crap out of Alien X rather than the way you did it. This was a massive low ball for Ben 10 and I honestly think that this is the most unbalanced Death Battle they've ever done. I'm also counting the Quiksilver vs Flash Fight, the Captain Marvel brawl, and so many more. Death Battle ,like all of us, is bias and they should be fair to both sides of the fight rather than one.
I'm done and hopefully won't be doing something like this again time soon. I will not be doing more rants like this anytime in the future. If something big comes up, I will but for now, I'm going back to writing Zero. Later.
No comments:
Post a Comment